About Sonic 1 – Under Neat (Genesis) Romhack

[Mildanner]

Adrian, Sonic 1 Under Neat should be made with the Sonic 1 Engine and not Sonic Clean Engine with bad palette changes and mediocre music rips by me.

 

[nanothehedgehog]

here is an advice for you mildanner , do not try to steat the other rom hacker's work , if you did managed to use some of it you either credit them or ask for premission to use the code or the disassembly , also adrian , the Clean Engine Disassembly is free to use and it does not have troubles using it (removed few lines because there is nothing useful in these lines for this conversation but i do hope you do not create the recolor hacks because it might give you problems in the future)

 

[Adrian Gauna]

Did you know?...I give up

Saying obvious and verifiable things with a little reading is not getting anywhere here.

Do what you want, I don't care... I'm just warning you that you're getting a bad reputation.

Me? Getting a bad reputation? What, for sharing community ROM hacks other than my own and giving authors and dev teams praise and renewed recognition from the public from their decade old hacks? How is that a bad reputation? I don't steal anything from the community, the'' released by'' section of every entry I add always has the author's name, never my own. With Sonic 1 Under Neat I got it wrong and I own that as a mistake, yes verifying sources is important but sometimes it's not easily obtainable from a public perspective and as for poor old Gavin, Gavin asks ROM hack owners before he recolours them, in the past he didn't and he got into trouble for it but now he does, with this hack he asked Mildanner, this was BEFORE he and myself found out that the hack had a troubled history and was stolen.

I'm not sure why you're not understanding this?

Mildanner said: Adrian, Sonic 1 Under Neat should be made with the Sonic 1 Engine and not Sonic Clean Engine with bad palette changes and mediocre music rips by me.

I already told you what to do to avoid anymore trouble from the community.

1. Drop the Mildanner username, it's cursed and has developed a bad reputation for ''stealing ROM hacks'' if you stick with ''Mildanner'' the Sonic ROM hacking community may not take you seriously ever again. Start fresh with a new name.

2. If you still want to ROM hack Sonic, use public domain tools and Sonic 1 and Sonic 2's engines. Regardless of whether the Sonic 3 Clean Engine is free for the public to use or not, my advice Don't Use It!

3. Gavin's palettes are not bad, I only mentioned Gavin because some of his work is really good and he can do palettes for you and take the work load off you. Maybe make a ROM hack together with him? He'd be thrilled! Use something to change level layouts and maybe swap some tunes for other tunes using ASM to SMPS or something? And boom! You have a decent mediocre Sonic hack.

4. Also, whatever you make in the future, don't post it on SSRG or Sonic Retro, keep away from there and any other forum that has strict rules and regulations, keep a low profile and only release your hacks through youtube with a Mediafire link.

There is everybody on this thread happy now? Can we all stop arguing please?

 

[Malachi]

1. There's nothing wrong with Gavin and his colour mods, i've even uploaded a few to the Plaza myself (with his permission). I only recommended him because he can make it easier for Mildanner as Mildanner would have less work to do. Wrong. Gavin is not a red flag.

I don't know about you, but I would consider somebody whos behaviour indicates they shouldn't be on the internet at all; who merely changes colour values to imitate other characters with no interest in pursuing better means that have existed for decade now, with autism being used as an excuse in a community full of them; who shows said palette hacks to the original hack creators as if it's anything more then a nuisance at best; who cracks a hissy fit when certain parts of character hacks that did pursue better means, dares to neglect one certain part of the game (in Sonic 1s, case usually the Special Stage or Ending); and who upon gaining a bad reputation for the former, requests a bunch other impressionable rom hackers to do all of the former on his behalf (including yours truly on an old account), as a red flag. This is all without mentioning that dick pic incident.
While I can't confirm that Gavin has changed as a person from the last time we've interacted, Adrian boiling him down to nothing more then the palette maker indicates little change in his capabilities, which is a bad sign for his personal growth.
On that note, do you really need a palette specialist? Markey Jester comparison jokes aside Mildanner is pretty talented for what he does, but he also wasn't the only person to work on this, in particular I know that Hame aka Rivet can also create some great stuff including palettes; I'm not an artist even now, but made this for a private hack back in 2022.

You're acting as if messing with palettes is an arcane magic that few can master, when it's the easy part.

2. Those youtube content creators go looking for anything they can find to upload videos and make revenue, from the really great Sonic hacks to the really poor ones so no red flag here either.

The inevitability of the big youtube channels scraping rom hacks to play was not the red flag, but rather your encouragement of making said scrap.
Creative work forged merely as a source of content for the eyes of people who will forget you, and for the profit for people beyond you, will always yield in some form (or many forms) of regret from the creative. In the same vain, devaluing creatives for the purpose of mass production on worse variations of their work, attributing their work to unwanted works from others, or encouraging any of the aforementioned actions, will always result in the creatives despising relevant and/or similar individuals.

3. Last I looked, the Sonic Clean Engine wasn't allowed to be used for public and commercial use, only for private projects but I could be wrong on this one?

To Mildanner: Even if it is, I recommend not using the Clean Engine again, it's what got you into trouble.

Sonic Clean Engine is a public engine. It isn't permitted for commercial use by necessity due to using copyrighted Sega code, with the explicit uncommercial nature simply being a warning for that.
Mildanner was not getting in trouble for using a public engine, but rather due to previous thievery, poking where he shouldn't and general misconduct, generating a bad reputation among peers; associations with Gavin Graham, amplifying the aforementioned bad reputation; an impotently written hack page that attributed all the work put into Clean Engine, the work that rivals the likes of Markey Jester, Lone Devil, Sophiedude and so on, to Mildanner; and the hack just generally being bad (but harmless) relative to its source.

Me? Getting a bad reputation? What, for sharing community ROM hacks other than my own and giving authors and dev teams praise and renewed recognition from the public from their decade old hacks? How is that a bad reputation?

Your reputation in the sonic hacking scene well precedes this thread.

As for the advice recently given to Mildanner (despite you two having other direct means of communication?):

1. Drop the Mildanner username, it's cursed and has developed a bad reputation for ''stealing ROM hacks'' if you stick with ''Mildanner'' the Sonic ROM hacking community may not take you seriously ever again. Start fresh with a new name.

Don't, as people will eventually figure out the name change even if you also follow Adrians 4th advice, which will further descend your reputation and necessitate another change, which will be discovered faster then the last one, creating a constant negative feedback loop. Unless you have a more personal reason to move past the Mildanner name, as I have a few years back, then it's best to work towards redeeming your reputation rather then running from your mistakes, because I know you can.

2. If you still want to ROM hack Sonic, use public domain tools and Sonic 1 and Sonic 2's engines. Regardless of whether the Sonic 3 Clean Engine is free for the public to use or not, my advice Don't Use It!

TLDR: Clean Engine wasn't the problem, use it if you want.

3. Gavin's palettes are not bad, I only mentioned Gavin because some of his work is really good and he can do palettes for you and take the work load off you. Maybe make a ROM hack together with him? He'd be thrilled! Use something to change level layouts and maybe swap some tunes for other tunes using ASM to SMPS or something? And boom! You have a decent mediocre Sonic hack.

TLDR: You don't need a palette specialist.
NOTE: similarly to the obliviousness of Clean Engine and its "license", Adrian shows an obliviousness to SonLVL and SonED2, along with a vague description of smps2asm which indicates that he still thinks we use binaries. s1smps2asm, the precursor of smps2asm, came out during his time of activity in the larger sonic hacking scene, making this questionable at best.

4. Also, whatever you make in the future, don't post it on SSRG or Sonic Retro, keep away from there and any other forum that has strict rules and regulations, keep a low profile and only release your hacks through youtube with a Mediafire link.

Sonic Retro, SSRG, and the general sonic hacking scene certainly have issues beyond this (Sonic Retro with its ""tech" "members"", SSRG with djohe for the longest time, most of our infrastructure relying on one guy, so on), but these "strict rules and regulations" you speak of? They boil down to not being a dick, overly annoying, and/or overly pretentious. Many other good groups (like rom hack plaza) go by similar beliefs, even when they start to corrode from within. I wish you luck in finding good people who don't also share this belief.
I do wish, however, that our community would start to encourage forgiveness and redemption for ones who are able.

There is everybody on this thread happy now? Can we all stop arguing please?

Ignoring the fact that everyone here but Red and Simone were having a discussion rather then an argument, yeah, I'm happy now.

 

[Simone D. Alemanno]

Ignoring the fact that everyone here but Red and Simone were having a discussion rather then an argument, yeah, I'm happy now.

Me? An argument?
What exactly are you talking about?

 

[Adrian Gauna]

I'm getting tired of this crap and why are some of you tearing strips out of me? I didn't steal the hack. Mildanner is the culprit.

Malachi, you know nothing about me and you seem to really enjoy spreading lies about me and picking apart things i've said as well as twist some of it to suit your own argument.

Let's start with this:

Malachi said: Your reputation in the sonic hacking scene well precedes this thread.

If you must know, I don't like SSRG or Sonic Retro, I choose not to participate on those sites as I find those forums to be toxic and communistic by nature, plus there's been a lot of paedophiles on there in the past hiding behind the forums, I don't like the attitude there, someone accidentally puts a second sentence down or a full stop somewhere and they get told off rudely like a child by some moderator wft? No thanks! I made an account on Sonic Retro once only for the admins to block me before even posting anything? We can make Sonic hacks outside of those places without those strict rules. I also don't care what the precious Sonic hacking community as a whole thinks of me. I live outside the gates of the Sonic hacking community and have for many years now, I don't need their knight hood or blessing. I use youtube for my main communication when I want to put something out.

Mildanner can do what he wants, I don't care.

Most of you despise Gavin, I don't care and Mildanner doesn't have to use him or like him either, it was only a recommendation as some of Gavin's work is quite nice. I am entitled to an opinion last I checked?

Malachi said: The inevitability of the big youtube channels scraping rom hacks to play was not the red flag, but rather your encouragement of making said scrap.

So we're not allowed to show any encouragement or praise for Sonic hacks according to you? Are those youtube channels evil or something? DDAS, AmyRoseLongplays, Razor/Zenon and Jaypin88. I was trying to help Mildanner out that's all by steering him away from places like SSRG and Sonic Retro that tear strips off you for coughing or scratching your arse. You and Red can stick these red flags where the sun doesn't shine.

Malachi said: ''amplifying the aforementioned bad reputation; an impotently written hack page that attributed all the work put into Clean Engine, the work that rivals the likes of Markey Jester, Lone Devil, Sophiedude and so on, to Mildanner''.

I was impressed with the hack and wanted to praise it, never said Jester, Lone Devil and Sophiedude had no talent. I like to look at the positive side of every Sonic hack rather than the negative side, I used to be really negative about them and didn't always understand the reasons why crashes and glitches would appear and would hammer them live on camera. I got blasted by various yahoos like yourself back in the day for being overly negative on them and for not understanding the technical reasons why bugs occurred, so I now try and look on the bright side of other people's works rather than overly criticise them.

The fact of the matter is I made an entry page here not knowing of the troubled history this ''Sonic 1 Under Neat'' supposedly had. I supported the decision for it to be removed by Kandowantu once he told me the real reason why other users were whinging about it, I supported the removal. It's a blocked entry never going public again so you don't have to worry about it. I did however put some art on that page and i'm thinking of moving it to another page in the future is the only reason I haven't fully terminated it yet including this thread.

I shouldn't have to justify my words and actions to you.

Malachi said: ''Creative work forged merely as a source of content for the eyes of people who will forget you, and for the profit for people beyond you, will always yield in some form (or many forms) of regret from the creative. In the same vain, devaluing creatives for the purpose of mass production on worse variations of their work, attributing their work to unwanted works from others, or encouraging any of the aforementioned actions, will always result in the creatives despising relevant and/or similar individuals''.

Don't even get me started on this. I can explode on the hypocrisy of the Sonic ROM hacking community and easily exploit holes in this argument. The Sonic ROM hacking community makes up these rules and regulations and expects the outside community to play ball by their rules and chucks a hissy fit when something doesn't go their way. I'm happy to abide by these rules but when I hear Sonic modders like Selbi and RedhotSonic whinge about repros I really get angry because they're blinded by their own light that they can't see that they are part of the problem.

This is the question:

What gives all of us the right to hack an IP in the first place when we clearly don't own it, not asked permission to and have no real right to? Why is it okay for someone to make a ROM hack of Sonic illegally and to release it to the public but it's somehow wrong for the reproduction aftermarket to sell them on cartridges and now it's apparently not okay for youtube content creators to upload Sonic ROM hack longplays because they're getting ad revenue from those videos they upload of Sonic hacks? If you rock the boat, we're all going to tip over, every sector, no more Sonic ROM hacking, no more SSRG, no more Sonic Retro, no repros on carts, no more youtube videos. My advice is to stop whinging about this subject because SEGA can easily take it all away. Nobody should be the Arbiter here as it remains in a grey area where we all want it to stay. To acknowledge the shady practises of the hobby, we must also acknowledge that we as Sonic ROM modders don't have proper permission in the first place and are just as much in the black as those other sectors.

Instead of trying to pull apart my comments why don't you do something constructive like stopping the ''offending hack'' with stolen content from circulating on youtube through file sharing links. I can tell you those youtubers much like me are not to blame here, we get these hacks from authors who leave them lying around and we upload videos on them, make entries on them etc. I'm glad it's down here but if you really wanna make a difference you should stop it from spreading around on youtube.

You mentioned Romhack Plaza somewhere in there, Romhack Plaza is nothing like SSRG, Sonic Retro or even ROMHACKING(.)NET I've been on here just over a year now and have never had a problem with staff. Ben the admin is a nice guy who tries to help those who have issues on the site. I even got a small apology from Kandowantu for not properly explaining to me why the Sonic 1 Under Neat entry was removed. I enjoy the freedom here and do my best to stay in the guidelines. I remember the verifying process over at ROMHACKING(.)NET feeling like swallowing razor blades, they told me my hack had to be verified by three senior ROM hackers on the site and told me I wasn't even allowed to write my own game description. They also rejected a review I tried to post of another hack, so I left. There's nothing like that here.

​

 

[Red2010]

Honestly, I didn't want to comment on this thread again because, honestly, I don't gain anything from it.

But with all those lengthy posts that appeared... I have some things to say.

Regarding Adrian, you say you have a wife and children to take care of, and that requires maturity... Maturity which doesn't seem to be very common here. Don't get me wrong, I don't know you in real life, nor do I think you're a bad person (in fact, I want to believe you're an excellent person in real life).

But... with that attitude, you leave me with a lot of things I want to address.

I was trying to help Mildanner out that's all by steering him away from places like SSRG and Sonic Retro

It's quite obvious that you don't really know how SSRG or Sonic Retro works, and giving them exposure through YouTube gameplay channels is something I'll complement with the following:

I'm happy to abide by these rules but when I hear Sonic modders like Selbi and RedhotSonic whinge about repros I really get angry because they're blinded by their own light that they can't see that they are part of the problem.

Giovanni already explained this in a video, but in short, those channels post anything, almost like a content farm, and they monetize their videos. While practically everyone who makes Sonic ROM hacks as a hobby doesn't make any money.

stop whinging about this subject because SEGA can easily take it all away

They rarely take DMCA action, but if they do, it's because something goes against their interests as a company, or the fan game creator is profiting from it without Sega's permission, which is immoral, at least in my opinion.

it was only a recommendation as some of Gavin's work is quite nice. I am entitled to an opinion last I checked?

I don't know what your level of "quality" is when it comes to Gavin, but you're potentially defending a pedophile. Besides, he makes very sloppy hacks, as Malachi said, and it's kind of unnecessary to give him the role of creating color palettes, since he sometimes disregards basic color theory principles or uses very harsh, jarring colors.

I remember the verifying process over at ROMHACKING(.)NET feeling like swallowing razor blades, they told me my hack had to be verified by three senior ROM hackers on the site and told me I wasn't even allowed to write my own game description. They also rejected a review I tried to post of another hack, so I left

I don't know when you joined the site, but I recently joined and uploaded something. They were quite helpful and accepted it without many problems. Besides, I don't think anyone can describe their work better than the author themselves, so I'm not entirely convinced that they wouldn't let you write your own description. It's another thing if your review doesn't comply with the site's rules, and it's normal that they would reject it.

In other words, Adrian, you're being a bit hypocritical and judging everything based solely on past experiences.

I know SSRG or Sonic Retro sometimes make mistakes, and everyone does... But you're reminding me a lot of the case of a certain musician who composed music for Sonic ROM hacks and ended up being exposed for defending a predator in the same community. But that happened years ago, and there haven't been any similar incidents involving people like that in SSRG or Sonic Retro for a long time.

I hope this makes you reflect a bit as an adult and improve your online behavior. Take this message however you want, but I don't want to contribute to this thread anymore. As I said, I'm not adding anything to this discussion.

 

[Adrian Gauna]

Honestly, I didn't want to comment on this thread again because, honestly, I don't gain anything from it.

Hmm, well for someone who didn't want to stick their nose in it you stuck your nose in anyway.

Regarding Adrian, you say you have a wife and children to take care of, and that requires maturity... Maturity which doesn't seem to be very common here. Don't get me wrong, I don't know you in real life, nor do I think you're a bad person (in fact, I want to believe you're an excellent person in real life).

Now you're getting extremely personal by bringing up my wife and kids and I don't think that is a mature thing to do from someone who didn't want to say anything and then wanted to say something. Maybe you should question your own level of maturity. This comment thread quickly became a discussion thread to a character assassination.

It's quite obvious that you don't really know how SSRG or Sonic Retro works,

Where have you been? After the disastrous Tweaker on Sonic Retro there was FireRat on SSRG who even admitted to touching minors inappropriately, there was also another but I don't remember the name, then there was Aurora Fields who was allegedly dating a minor who was an SSRG big name back in the day

Giovanni already explained this in a video, but in short, those channels post anything, almost like a content farm, and they monetize their videos. While practically everyone who makes Sonic ROM hacks as a hobby doesn't make any money.

Money or no money makes no difference, copyright is copyright, everybody in the hobby is in the black and should continue to keep quiet. It's only Sonic ROM modders that whinge about this, never ROM hackers of other games.

I don't know what your level of "quality" is when it comes to Gavin, but you're potentially defending a pedophile. Besides, he makes very sloppy hacks, as Malachi said, and it's kind of unnecessary to give him the role of creating color palettes, since he sometimes disregards basic color theory principles or uses very harsh, jarring colors.

You're the first person i've heard to call Gavin a paedophile, is there any proof to this other than a dick pic mentioned by Malachi? He has made some very ugly colour hacks but he's equally made some really nice ones too.

I don't know when you joined the site, but I recently joined and uploaded something. They were quite helpful and accepted it without many problems. Besides, I don't think anyone can describe their work better than the author themselves, so I'm not entirely convinced that they wouldn't let you write your own description. It's another thing if your review doesn't comply with the site's rules, and it's normal that they would reject it.

Romhacking(.)net is very different now, they don't host the patches anymore and the management has changed, I tried to join in 2021 and they were a-holes towards me. The harsh verifying process is one thing but to tell me that I wasn't allowed to even type up my own game description was the icing on the cake and that's what made me leave. No it's not normal for them to reject my review when it was within the guidelines. They were just being control freaks, it's no wonder things imploded over there last year. I'm glad, as I have no sympathy for that place.

In other words, Adrian, you're being a bit hypocritical and judging everything based solely on past experiences.

Don't preach to me about hypocrisy when most of your belief system around the Sonic hacking community is based on hypocrisy.

I know SSRG or Sonic Retro sometimes make mistakes, and everyone does... But you're reminding me a lot of the case of a certain musician who composed music for Sonic ROM hacks and ended up being exposed for defending a predator in the same community. But that happened years ago, and there haven't been any similar incidents involving people like that in SSRG or Sonic Retro for a long time.

Are you trying to say that I defend paedophiles? I have small kids and want the bastards castrated and burned alive. Again, you're the first to call out Gavin as a paedophile and i've not seen or heard any proof of that.

I think I know who you're trying to tie me to and I don't appreciate it. I don't know Eduardo and Mr.Joker27 in person and I haven't really spoken to them in a discussion nor do I really know their backgrounds, but all I can say is that they have always been polite and kind to me in the past when they've made comments. Deltawooloo says that these two are the ones who defended FireRat which lead to the ban.

I hope this makes you reflect a bit as an adult and improve your online behavior. Take this message however you want, but I don't want to contribute to this thread anymore. As I said, I'm not adding anything to this discussion.

Online behaviour? Oh yeah I add entries of Sonic ROM hacks on a site and enjoy praising them and talking them up which gives the authors more renewed recognition. Somehow this makes me a bad guy who needs to reflect on my online behaviour.

I think you should seriously take a good look at yourself, you're casting aspersion by preaching a character assassination and you're not the arbiter of the rules of the industry.

Mildanner is the crook, not me. Get it through your thick heads and leave me alone!